Comments on: Autorotation training

By: Rick Thorpe

Rick Thorpe — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 19:38:22 +0000

Just a bit harsh there Bill don’t you think? Perhaps you shluld take another look at the last paragraph. It clearly suggests the pilot retards the throttle to avoid an overspeed as he applies collective to cushion the landing.

Incredibly poor reading comprehension skills? Really? Might want to lay off the caffeine there Bill.

By: Jim Borger

Jim Borger — Wed, 02 May 2012 14:56:56 +0000

Fixed wing pilots don’t do forced landing practice to the ground because every “normal” landing is a full touchdown. In addition, you only need a small clear area to land a helicopter but a fixed wing takes many hundreds of feet to land. Touching down at 60 mph could be a disaster on a soft surface so you don’t want to do that unless you have no other choice. I was taught zero ground run autos, not the “slide on” they do now.

By the way, I was also taught to land fixed wings by pulling the throttle all the way to idle and leaving it there until bringing it back up to taxi after landing. That way, every landing was a practice engine out landing. Today fixed wing pilots fly B-52 traffic patterns and carry power all the way to touchdown. I used to have an older friend, he passed at 102, that atarted flying WW 1 aircraft landing power off and continued that practice as an airline captain flying jets. As far as stats go about my time in the Army, facts not “fond” memories, I can only speak to what I personally observed and was told during safety meetings. Sorry, I din’t keep notes from 40+ years aago so I can’t furnish you with exact numbers.

By: Bill

Bill — Wed, 02 May 2012 06:13:43 +0000

Dear Jim Borger,

Just wondering why fixed wing pilots are not required to do engine off emergency landings during their training?
Also, please provide us with accurate stats that back up your claim that the Army had “very few” accidents
when doing full down autos. You can’t, becaise that is simply untrue.
All this sounds like it’s your fond memory talking rather than exact data.

By: Bill

Bill — Wed, 02 May 2012 06:07:21 +0000

Dear Rick Thorpe,

NOWHERE in the article does the author or anyone else suggest that an engine overspeed will develope as collective is applied in
the late stages of an autorotation!!
Instead of questioning the writer, you should strive to improve your incredibly poor reading comprehension skills.

By: Jim Miller

Jim Miller — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 15:21:43 +0000

In fixed wing training I was taught full stalls,in mel.vmc demos. but in my com.helicopter.training no full down autos.? I was told only CFI training required it. I found a CFI.that would let me do them,and I must admit I think it made me a better pilot knowing what to expect.

By: Jim Borger

Jim Borger — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:35:42 +0000

I started Army flight school in January of 66. As part of my training I had to solo in touchdown autos. During my training I did hundreds of touchdowns, day and night, and power recoveries. After my all expenses paid vacation to exotic Southeast Asia I returned to instruct for two years. I had 1,800 hours when I started instructing. Each of my students, I had 3 or 4 at a time, did at least a dozen touchdowns every other day and were very comfortable doing them by the time they graduated. The Army had very few accidents doing this type of traiining.

Later the instructors had less and less experience, resulting in more accidents and incidents, so the Army stopped doing full down autos for some time. As a result, after a real engine failure, their pilots could do a great auto through the flare but the touchdown left a lot to be desired. Of course, we are talking generalities here but I personally know a number of pilots that totaled their aircraft in this way. Engines are much more reliable these days but they do still fail on occasioon. I may be an FOG (fairly old guy) living in the past and stuck in my ways but you will never comvince me that issuing a certificate to a pilot without that person demonstrating an abillity to safelly land after an engine failure is a good idea.

By: Taser

Taser — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:42:16 +0000

Anyone who thinks that all auto practice should be performed to full-down is simply wrong. If that were actually undertaken we’d
have more serious accidents and deaths than ever before.
How many NTSB reports can you find that show engine expiration for piston or turbine helis? Not many, I think.
No, this is a classic case of someone recalling the “good ‘ol days” and erroneously thinking that today’s methods are all wrong.

By: Rick Thorpe

Rick Thorpe — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:20:00 +0000

I am not sure I get the point of the article, and I find the language used by the author makes me wonder about his rotorcraft experience. To suggest the rotor system will stall if the pilot pushes the wrong pedal or pulls up on the collective suggests the author doesn’t really understand the true hazard is in fact a decay of rotor RPM. First, I can’t help but question the suggestion an engine will overspeed as collective is applied in the late stages of an autorotation to cushion the landing. It is just inconsistent with reality. Yanking on the collective will never result in an overspeed of the engine or an increase in rotor RPM. Never. Second I question the logic offered for not conducting practice autorotations. That is to say that it is as a result of practice that the student pilot develop the correct instincts and reactions when presented with the symptoms of an autorotation. To suggest not practicing simulated engine failures because the student pilot might react incorrectly is kind of absurd. Finally, the autorotation scenario described at the end of the article is precisely what I expect to happen in the very late stages of an auot, within feet of the ground. Remember, engine response is not instantaneous, and that when going from flat pitch to nearly full up with the collective, there are going to be deviations in the heading of the aircraft as well as changes in rotor RPM. Perhaps I am missing the point of the article.

By: Phil Bridges

Phil Bridges — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:32:03 +0000

I retired as an Army aviator in 1993. The Army stopped doing touchdown autorotations in the late 80s (except in initial entry flight training) due to their experience that more helicopters were being damaged or lost in performing practice touchdown autorotations than in actual engine failures. As far as I know, that is still the Army policy.

By: Dave Koch

Dave Koch — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 14:27:47 +0000

I soloed a Hughes in 1967 (civilian) and then moved on to U.S. Army rotary-wing training in the early 1970s. I didn’t do full-touchdown autorotations until the Army training. From that point forward in my approx. 800 hours of helicopter time, we always did full-touchdown autorotations when ever autorotations were practiced. In fact, as I recall, we had to demonstrate proficiency in full-touchdown autorotations every 90 days in the Army.

It is my firm belief that autorotations that terminate in a power recovery are negative training and should be banned by the FAA. It is also my firm belief that any pilot that is not proficient in full-touchdown autorotations should not be allowed to fly helicopters.

The accident record confirms this belief.