Comments on: CFI Pay

By: Boilermaker Chick

Boilermaker Chick — Wed, 26 May 2010 15:08:12 +0000

I don’t know if $100 is exactly fair (although the risk with some primary students seems to make it so at times…), but I think wage should at LEAST be above minimum. I work at Purdue University and make a whopping $7.25 an hour, minimum wage. It’s sad, but I used to make more working the register at the McDonald’s on the corner. I’m not looking to get rich off of instructing, but with the time it requires from me, it would be nice to not to have a second job to cover basic expenses, seeing that I am also a full time student at the University. They say they’re out of cash and want to keep costs lowm, but what about that new Phenom100 and fleet of Cirrus SR20′s they just bought…

By: This is your Captain

This is your Captain — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:11:41 +0000

I’m a retired Airline pilot now but remember that we were having this same conversation 40 years ago. As I remember CFI pay, it wasn’t good and the students weren’t reliable. Back then, I quit a good paying job with a future to fly because I loved flying. I took a 70% paycut and I’m sure most would have never done that.

My advice is that you should do what you love doing and somewhere in the process, figure out a way to make it pay your bills. My moto back then was “persistance pays off.” I don’t know if this is a good moto for everyone but it worked for me. So, just like with flying, always have a plan B.

Looking back over fourty years, I’ve had four aviation jobs and three of them made me a good living — guess which one didn’t. When you think about it, being a pilot is like so many of the real professions… Lawyers, doctors and dentist all work many years for free before the real earnings start. Why should pilots be any different.

Go with God!

By: George K.

George K. — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:33:31 +0000

Christina M. hits on several facts about the business of flight instruction: a steady supply of willing new CFIs is required to operate the typical flight school. All the new instructors are there for a reason, build time for the next big thing. At its worst, the flight training industry does have more than a little in common with a pyramid scheme (the big payoff is just around the corner). This aspect will be dramatically amplified if the House bill, recently reported out to the Senate, requiring ATP certificates for all pilots in any seat in 121 operations. You’ll have the time builders sticking around to make 1200, then trying to leave (to where? we are always 5 years shy of a pilot shortage that never seems to get here). The CFI-as-stepping-stone is the real problem … most are not committed to the role of mentor/instructor and do just well enough to get along, build the time and move on.

By: Bob

Bob — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 22:00:00 +0000

I would venture to guess that what a flight school charges and an instructor receives is not the same. I get $15/hour while the company charges $40 – $50 /hours. Looks like the company makes a lot more, but they do cover some of the liability insurance cost.

Also, If I get my CFII, I will only get an additional $1.00 per hour.

CFI’s are also somewhat to blame. We sell our services to companies or individuals far too cheaply. But we also, do not want to strangle the goose that lays the eggs for us to scrap a little of gold from for our needs.

Sounds like we are between a rock and a hard place, so to speak.

By: Oliver

Oliver — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:37:58 +0000

There are two kinds of flight instruction.

Type 1 is instruction to meet minimum FAA requirements. Customers for Type 1 instruction will always seek the lowest cost instructors whose students consistently pass the tests. Type 1 instructors may typically be found at local flight schools. The economics will be brutal, because the lowest cost wins.

Type 2 is instruction to achieve excellence, demanded either by the student’s own ambitions or to achieve success in a flying profession. Customers for Type 2 instruction will always seek the very best instuctors, and will pay them accordingly.

If you wish to be a Type 2 instructor, you must identify your target customers and market yourself to them. One way is to join an organization like FSI, which takes care of the marketing for you. If you go it alone, you should learn some marketing skills.

By: Bud Raymond

Bud Raymond — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 05:30:29 +0000

It all comes down to basic economics. An inexperienced CFI with low time is not in demand and is willing to accept the lowest flight school pay. High time, experienced, and insightful CFI’s have been known to charge over $100 per hour. They obviously don’t work as much, but then again they don’t have to in order to earn the same.
I’ve found the best value are the old-timer instructor’s who often earned their CFI certificate later in life and teach because they enjoy it.

By: Christina M.

Christina M. — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 01:57:28 +0000

As a Professional Pilot and CFIIAIM for well over 30 years I agree with Bruce. The compensation for Flight Instruction is so low as to be abysmal. We are in a business that can and will save lives if we perform our roles with respect (for our students and ourselves), experience, continuing education, conscience, professionalism and love of our trade. It is truly a shame that the consumerism in America (referred to as supply and demand) results in our working for peanuts while golfers, guitar players, secretaries and dog trainers make more money per hour than we do. I have nothing against the foregoing talents, but have learned that because new students want to get the ‘best deal’ they forego the best training in many cases. Fortunately there are many of us who continue to teach for the sake of continuing to fly and to have the benefit of sharing our joy of flight. I always learn from other pilots in the experiences they share with me. This is not only other CFI’s, but the many pilots I fly with, whether it be a new aircraft owner, pilot wanting a refesher, flight review, or student. There has never been a flight on which I have not learned something.
I worked my way up the difficult way, without any military training, sponsorship, or grants. I was a single Mom and paid for every single hour of dual and solo practice along with aircraft rentals until I was able to “fly the line” on two different major airlines over a period of fifteen years. Those were the only times I was economically able to fly for a living.
Prior to the airlines, I, too, worked very diligently as a CFI to attain the necessary hours and experience to get that airline job in the cockpit. I also worked the desk of the flight school and learned to do bookkeeping part time (evenings generally) just to raise my Son and enable us to have a roof over our heads. Working full time as a CFII never compensated me to the extent I could give up other “jobs.” And I was a very busy CFI, booked every day I was available and every two hours another client (some were students, some aircraft owners, some potential CFI’s). I, too, was paid only hobbs time, earning not even half of the $20 to $25 the flight school charged, as we instructors were paid $10 to $12 of the fee the clients paid, giving half our time for free in pre- and post- flight. The school I worked for was the highest paying one on Van Nuys airport, as others paid us $6 to $8. It was also the best in the sense that CFI’s with the highest experience worked with us.
Unfortunately in the thirty-plus years I’ve been teaching, very little has changed. There are CFI’s building time who work for so very little at the flight schools that there is no comparison to any of us independent instructors. Having the hours is the only way the airlines will accept new hires. Paying so little to CFI’s is one of the ways most flight school owners are able to stay in business. The flight schools have come and gone. So many at Van Nuys (CA) I stopped counting. The old joke still holds true, “If you want to make a million dollars in aviation, start with three million.”
Fortunately there are enough folks with enthusiasm for flying and enough money (generally made in another business) to open flight schools. Unfortunately many also close for various reasons, including financial ones. The long-time schools are few and far between. (Thank you AOPA for your long running CFI renewal courses!)
My bottom line: I charge $50 per hour, which includes all my time, not just hobbs. I know of other independent instructors who charge less, also some who charge more than I do. No, I still do not ‘make my living’ as an instructor, as CFI’s are a ‘dime a dozen’ here in SoCal, but I give 110% to each person I fly with. I’m sure that many flight students will find a ‘better price’, but they won’t get a better deal. Not with their family and friends onboard after their training has been with an experienced instructor, and there are many of us. Many of the new instructors are very sharp and certainly current on all the new rules and regulations, especially with the TSA, etc. and they are valuable in their own right. Each of us CFI’s had to start somewhere.
I realize I really started my learning only after I began to teach. My experience is more valuable than continuing to prostitute myself to build time or continuing on with someone with more money than brains, always looking for a ‘deal’. Flying is my passion and by picking and choosing with whom I fly it stays that way.

By: David McEntire

David McEntire — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:00:41 +0000

This subject brings to mind a conversation I had with a friend of mine. He is a drum instructor and makes around $50/hour cash doing it. He is very good and probably deserves what he makes. While I am sure that several of his students have caused him to wince in pain I doubt he ever had to take the drum sticks to save both of their lives as I have sitting in the instructor’s seat. One day he asked me what I made as an instructor. When I told him the average instructor probably makes between 10-20 dollars per hour he could not understand why I love to instruct.

The only two ways that I can think of to increase CFI compensation is to completely change the current system. For discussion sake I propose that the FAA remove the ability to log PIC when giving instruction. That way the only people who instruct would be the ones who either do it for the love of instructing or for the increased pay that would surely follow. Dual given and total time could of course be logged. As stated previously part of the compensation a CFI receives is the ability to log PIC hours. Another and perhaps better option would be to increase the number of hours (experience required) before a person could become a CFI. Increase it enough so that the CFI certificate is not a viable means to an airliner cockpit and the instructor would have the experience to actually instruct. The total number of flight instructors would be reduced and as a result compensation would go up. Supply and demand as stated earlier.

As a student pilot (we all are no matter what your certificate says) I have had two kinds of instructors. I had an instructor who simply loved to instruct. These are the people who no matter what kinds of mistakes I made had a solution to my problem. And if the first solution did not work they would try another technique until I finally grasped the lesson. These are the guys who deserve a higher pay. The other kind was the under 300hr pilots who had enough knowledge and skill to keep us upright but when things went beyond the rote knowledge passed down from the 300 hr instructor who taught them were at a loss. There are many techniques that can be used in every maneuver. Only experience can allow the instructor to tailor a lesson to the student. How many of us were abandoned by our instructors as they bailed out for the next rung up the aviation career ladder?

Keeping costs low? I am all for that. A young person who wants to learn to fly can avail themselves of the many opportunities through the Civil Air Patrol or other aviation organizations. The CAP offers flight academies that compared to the most inexpensive fbo’s are a bargain. I have several people who participate in my unit who tell me how they wish they knew about the CAP when they were young.

My only point is that until the current system is fundamentally changed CFI’s will continue to be underpaid for the ratings and certificates they have earned.
I am not trying to throw barbs at low time instructors or those pursuing an airline career. They are only doing the best they can working in the system as it is currently designed.

By: Tony Weissgarber

Tony Weissgarber — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:44:17 +0000

It really doesn’t matter if you are paid $3 per hour or $100 per hour, if you kill yourself flying, does it?
Go to http://www.pilotschecklist.com and live longer.
I have been flying since 1951, first Air Force for 20 years and after retiring as an aerial photographer.
Flying is the second best thing that ever happened to me.
The first was my wife Ruth. We were married in 1951.
Tony Weissgarber, LtCol, USAF, retired

By: Sam Sharp

Sam Sharp — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:38:29 +0000

As CFIs, we are more than instructors. We diagnose the problems that the student has in mastering take-offs and landings, ADM, CRM, and how to leave those ‘nagging business problems’ on the ground.

We help to keep our students calm and collected during areas of high stress (real or percieved), and yet keep the learning experience fun.

I’ve never been to a ‘shrink’, but for my remaining in aviation for way too many years, I should have gone to several, just to have my head examined. How much does a psyco-therapist make for an hour’s worth of listening to some poor soul that can’t figure out his ills by himself?

Ah, but for the hour of flight…what ills are we able to cure for our students? We teach them to leave all of that crap on the ground, and enjoy ‘the joys of learning’ about flying. And, just maybe, learn a little bit about ourselves.

So, as a multi-functional CFI, one who performs as much instructing as we do lisnening, we should be able to justify our fees quite easily. Show us the money!!

Before y’all think that I was a ‘silver spoon’ child; I was raised by a single parent after my father died at a very young age. My mother’s wages as a school teacher could’nt even begin to pay for my pilot’s training. $6.00 an hour for the Super Cruiser, and $2.00 an our for my instructor, was far more than the $1.25 an hour for washing airplanes.

A few setbacks along the way, and almost 23,000 hours later, I’m back instructing-and loving it. And no, I’m not a rich retired airline captain. I chose far too many losing airlines to fly for. So I am instructing to put food on the table, and yet, to have any job other than flying is just plain unthinkable.