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	<title>Comments on: Too Short?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950</link>
	<description>A place to discuss safety-of-flight issues, procedures, techniques, and judgment.</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-49305</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-49305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Was this a recurrency flight?  A familiarization flight? or a BFR?  or a &quot;let&#039;s go fly&quot; event?

What are the stats for BFRs?  Do BFRs really improve accident stats compared to no BFRs?  I&#039;ve been told that BFRs haven&#039;t really (in themselves) improved GA - non Professional pilot - accident rates.  I&#039;ve even heard a couple of people assert a &quot;study&quot; was done by AOPA or someone who does those things that strongly suggested the BFR format used in the past was ineffective.  Do these studies exist?  and if so, what&#039;s the citation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was this a recurrency flight?  A familiarization flight? or a BFR?  or a &#8220;let&#8217;s go fly&#8221; event?</p>
<p>What are the stats for BFRs?  Do BFRs really improve accident stats compared to no BFRs?  I&#8217;ve been told that BFRs haven&#8217;t really (in themselves) improved GA &#8211; non Professional pilot &#8211; accident rates.  I&#8217;ve even heard a couple of people assert a &#8220;study&#8221; was done by AOPA or someone who does those things that strongly suggested the BFR format used in the past was ineffective.  Do these studies exist?  and if so, what&#8217;s the citation?</p>
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		<title>By: Don G</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-49033</link>
		<dc:creator>Don G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-49033</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a high time CFII - now retired.  Rather than always practicing a short field landing at low air speeds and margins every landing, how much better it is to decide on a landing spot every landing and make that a practice.  When competent then go with a good, high time instructor to hone your short field practice.  My experience has been that misjudging the &quot;where landing&quot; is the primary error in blown short field landings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a high time CFII &#8211; now retired.  Rather than always practicing a short field landing at low air speeds and margins every landing, how much better it is to decide on a landing spot every landing and make that a practice.  When competent then go with a good, high time instructor to hone your short field practice.  My experience has been that misjudging the &#8220;where landing&#8221; is the primary error in blown short field landings.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark C</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48942</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 02:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48942</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t necessarily add the 40 - 50% but I&#039;m cautious. I treat every landing as if it were a short field landing, to keep sharp on the technique, barring conditions like the need to land long to avoid wake turbulence. I used 3000 feet of a 3300 foot runway once when I was a student pilot, and disliked the feeling enough to make a determined effort to never let it happen again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily add the 40 &#8211; 50% but I&#8217;m cautious. I treat every landing as if it were a short field landing, to keep sharp on the technique, barring conditions like the need to land long to avoid wake turbulence. I used 3000 feet of a 3300 foot runway once when I was a student pilot, and disliked the feeling enough to make a determined effort to never let it happen again.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Schlenger</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48929</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Schlenger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 20:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I learned to fly a Lancair 360 after having just a couple hundred hours under my belt in the usual garden variety Cherokees and Cessnas. In the first 50 hours or so, I nearly made the papers a couple of times due to underestimating the distance required to land on short runways with obstacles. Only after about 100 hours in the Lancair would I count myself as a capable Lancair pilot meaning that I then had the skills to exercise a decent short field landing with predictable and safe results on appropriate runways. I do not have any Cirrus time but my son who flew both my Lancair and has some Cirrus time says they feel very similar in landing performance, that is you need to be ahead of the plane and your approach doesn’t have a lot of room for error.

I learned to land the Lancair at Castle near Merced because I had about 10,000 feet of runway to work with. If I did it over, I would have purchased something more like a Turbo Arrow. The Arrow isn’t nearly as exciting or fast but is a much safer ride and much easier to master. 

I question the wisdom of putting a student pilot in such a high performance plane in the early days of training and even more so in an exacting runway environment. I told one student pilot who was doing his primary training in an SR22 that I considered that to be a mistake. It is way too easy to overestimate one’s flying skills, especially with an extra dose of testosterone that younger men have to deal with. Everybody is God&#039;s gift to aviation until something goes awry.

I am saddened to hear of the demise of this dedicated flight instructor and probably the loss of another potential pilot or more as a result of the injuries of the student and his wife. I hope their recoveries are complete.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learned to fly a Lancair 360 after having just a couple hundred hours under my belt in the usual garden variety Cherokees and Cessnas. In the first 50 hours or so, I nearly made the papers a couple of times due to underestimating the distance required to land on short runways with obstacles. Only after about 100 hours in the Lancair would I count myself as a capable Lancair pilot meaning that I then had the skills to exercise a decent short field landing with predictable and safe results on appropriate runways. I do not have any Cirrus time but my son who flew both my Lancair and has some Cirrus time says they feel very similar in landing performance, that is you need to be ahead of the plane and your approach doesn’t have a lot of room for error.</p>
<p>I learned to land the Lancair at Castle near Merced because I had about 10,000 feet of runway to work with. If I did it over, I would have purchased something more like a Turbo Arrow. The Arrow isn’t nearly as exciting or fast but is a much safer ride and much easier to master. </p>
<p>I question the wisdom of putting a student pilot in such a high performance plane in the early days of training and even more so in an exacting runway environment. I told one student pilot who was doing his primary training in an SR22 that I considered that to be a mistake. It is way too easy to overestimate one’s flying skills, especially with an extra dose of testosterone that younger men have to deal with. Everybody is God&#8217;s gift to aviation until something goes awry.</p>
<p>I am saddened to hear of the demise of this dedicated flight instructor and probably the loss of another potential pilot or more as a result of the injuries of the student and his wife. I hope their recoveries are complete.</p>
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		<title>By: frederick boyd</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48920</link>
		<dc:creator>frederick boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48920</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Danielson CT. Runway short and narrow. No problem with my Tripacer but no room for eating up the runway for TO/Ldg.

Old Rhinebeck when you could fly into it. Went in with my Cherokee 180. Requires precision on TOO/ldg.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danielson CT. Runway short and narrow. No problem with my Tripacer but no room for eating up the runway for TO/Ldg.</p>
<p>Old Rhinebeck when you could fly into it. Went in with my Cherokee 180. Requires precision on TOO/ldg.</p>
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		<title>By: frederick boyd</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48919</link>
		<dc:creator>frederick boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48919</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Danielson in CT. Runway was short and narrow. Made landing/TO with ease in my Tripacer but there was no room for error.

Same for Old Rhinebeck when you could fly in. I did it with my Cherokee 180. Precision landing required.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danielson in CT. Runway was short and narrow. Made landing/TO with ease in my Tripacer but there was no room for error.</p>
<p>Same for Old Rhinebeck when you could fly in. I did it with my Cherokee 180. Precision landing required.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Gilbert, retired 17,000 hour airline pilot</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48846</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Gilbert, retired 17,000 hour airline pilot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 04:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greetings from New Zealand, Bruce.

In response to your question; &quot;What’s the closest you’ve come to running out of runway?&quot; I clicked &quot;Other, See Comments&quot; so here they are.  

It was February, 1967: I was about to join my first Squadron in the Royal Air Force and was doing my conversion onto the Avro Vulcan B.2 bomber.  With all of four flights completed, I was rostered to fly as Co Pilot to a very senior Group Captain who was about to take command of RAF Waddington.  This was to be his first flight back in command after three years of &#039;flying a mahogany bomber&#039; (doing a &#039;desk job&#039; at RAF Headquarters).  

On our 0700 hours maximum weight takeoff from RAF Finningley, while accelerating through 165 knots - still prior to V1 - we got an indication of multiple failures of the Powered Flying Controls.  The Vulcan had 8 &#039;Elevons&#039; - combination elevator / aileron units, each driven by a separate electrically operated hydraulic motor.  An early example of &#039;fly by wire&#039;: clever idea but prone to failure.  

In the Simulator, we would practice flying with all four &#039;Elevons&#039; failed on one wing but, in the circumstances, an abort seemed a good call.  The Captain called &#039;abort&#039; and closed the thrust levers - no reverse thrust on the Vulcan - while I flipped the brake chute lever.  

Initially, it appeared that we would have no problem stopping in the remaining distance available.  However, a successful abort close to V1 on the Vulcan was predicated on the successful deployment of the brake parachute and, unfortunately, on this occasion, the chute failed to deploy... 

Without the assistance of the brake chute, the brakes couldn&#039;t handle the job of arresting the heavy bomber and, as we sailed on down the 9,000 foot runway, they burst into flames.   The Tower reckoned we were only doing about 30 knots as we left the runway and started sinking slowly into the soft Lincolnshire bog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greetings from New Zealand, Bruce.</p>
<p>In response to your question; &#8220;What’s the closest you’ve come to running out of runway?&#8221; I clicked &#8220;Other, See Comments&#8221; so here they are.  </p>
<p>It was February, 1967: I was about to join my first Squadron in the Royal Air Force and was doing my conversion onto the Avro Vulcan B.2 bomber.  With all of four flights completed, I was rostered to fly as Co Pilot to a very senior Group Captain who was about to take command of RAF Waddington.  This was to be his first flight back in command after three years of &#8216;flying a mahogany bomber&#8217; (doing a &#8216;desk job&#8217; at RAF Headquarters).  </p>
<p>On our 0700 hours maximum weight takeoff from RAF Finningley, while accelerating through 165 knots &#8211; still prior to V1 &#8211; we got an indication of multiple failures of the Powered Flying Controls.  The Vulcan had 8 &#8216;Elevons&#8217; &#8211; combination elevator / aileron units, each driven by a separate electrically operated hydraulic motor.  An early example of &#8216;fly by wire&#8217;: clever idea but prone to failure.  </p>
<p>In the Simulator, we would practice flying with all four &#8216;Elevons&#8217; failed on one wing but, in the circumstances, an abort seemed a good call.  The Captain called &#8216;abort&#8217; and closed the thrust levers &#8211; no reverse thrust on the Vulcan &#8211; while I flipped the brake chute lever.  </p>
<p>Initially, it appeared that we would have no problem stopping in the remaining distance available.  However, a successful abort close to V1 on the Vulcan was predicated on the successful deployment of the brake parachute and, unfortunately, on this occasion, the chute failed to deploy&#8230; </p>
<p>Without the assistance of the brake chute, the brakes couldn&#8217;t handle the job of arresting the heavy bomber and, as we sailed on down the 9,000 foot runway, they burst into flames.   The Tower reckoned we were only doing about 30 knots as we left the runway and started sinking slowly into the soft Lincolnshire bog.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary B.</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48768</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:35:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48768</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I actually flew with this CFI once, about a year ago during my commercial pilot training.  I found him to be a competent and safe instructor, and as was previously mentioned, he also went to Cirrus&#039;s training course.

We can only speculate as to what happened (I&#039;ve been hearing a lot of contradictory reports), but I think more than anything, regardless of the aircraft, conditions, and runway length/width, it serves as a reminder that we must always be prepared for the worse.  I&#039;m also finding as a recently-minted CFII that things can quickly go from safe to unsafe, especially during takeoff or landing.

Flying is a lot of fun, and with proper, dedicated practice and training, it can be made relatively safe.  However, this accident particularly served as a strong reminder to me that it&#039;s not an activity we should be doing if we&#039;re not fully prepared to handle whatever may come our way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually flew with this CFI once, about a year ago during my commercial pilot training.  I found him to be a competent and safe instructor, and as was previously mentioned, he also went to Cirrus&#8217;s training course.</p>
<p>We can only speculate as to what happened (I&#8217;ve been hearing a lot of contradictory reports), but I think more than anything, regardless of the aircraft, conditions, and runway length/width, it serves as a reminder that we must always be prepared for the worse.  I&#8217;m also finding as a recently-minted CFII that things can quickly go from safe to unsafe, especially during takeoff or landing.</p>
<p>Flying is a lot of fun, and with proper, dedicated practice and training, it can be made relatively safe.  However, this accident particularly served as a strong reminder to me that it&#8217;s not an activity we should be doing if we&#8217;re not fully prepared to handle whatever may come our way.</p>
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		<title>By: Elbie Mendenhall CFIASMEL A&#38;I</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48765</link>
		<dc:creator>Elbie Mendenhall CFIASMEL A&#38;I</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 19:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another accident that could possibly been prevented by use of an AOA.  The industry still doesn&#039;t realize an AOA MUST automatically correct for flaps to be accurate in all conditions.  Hoprfully the ASTM F-39 committee will allow these fantastic instruments to be installed in Part 23 aircraft.  I have been an instructor for 50 years, retired air carrier pilot and mfg.AOA instruments for 17 years.  We need to teach &quot;flying&quot; not button pushing, but some instruments will save lives]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another accident that could possibly been prevented by use of an AOA.  The industry still doesn&#8217;t realize an AOA MUST automatically correct for flaps to be accurate in all conditions.  Hoprfully the ASTM F-39 committee will allow these fantastic instruments to be installed in Part 23 aircraft.  I have been an instructor for 50 years, retired air carrier pilot and mfg.AOA instruments for 17 years.  We need to teach &#8220;flying&#8221; not button pushing, but some instruments will save lives</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Dworman, CFIIA</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950&#038;cpage=1#comment-48759</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Dworman, CFIIA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2950#comment-48759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry for the typos from my little keyboard on my iPhone. 
C]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for the typos from my little keyboard on my iPhone.<br />
C</p>
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