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	<title>Comments on: Glass isn&#8217;t the Issue</title>
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	<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427</link>
	<description>A place to discuss safety-of-flight issues, procedures, techniques, and judgment.</description>
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		<title>By: San Diego Steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-44687</link>
		<dc:creator>San Diego Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 00:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-44687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a glider pilot with no training or time in powered aircraft, I am always amazed at how so many power pilots allow themselves to be distracted by instruments and spend so little time actually flying the airplane, watching the horizon and scanning for traffic.  Yes, the glass panel gadgets are wonderful, but they are no substitute for flying skills and judgment.  At the beginning of WWII, Wolfgang Langsweich wrote &quot;Stick and Rudder&quot; which is an understandable description of how an airplane actually flies, what the pilot can do to keep it flying, and, how to avoid a crash.  There were no glass panels, synthetic terrain or GPS then and the pilot had to quickly make the correct decisions to avoid disaster.  If you want to be a better, safer pilot, save some money and take a few glider lessons.  Without engine vibration and noise you will be able to feel and hear the forces that affect the glider and, hopefully, keep it in the air.  You will learn to estimate airspeed and attitude and predict stalls without reference even to the minimal steam gauges using sound and the forces operating on your body.  Even more, you will learn to anticipate what the glider will do before it does it.  The modern instruments can do many things to help the pilot, but they cannot replace flying skills.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a glider pilot with no training or time in powered aircraft, I am always amazed at how so many power pilots allow themselves to be distracted by instruments and spend so little time actually flying the airplane, watching the horizon and scanning for traffic.  Yes, the glass panel gadgets are wonderful, but they are no substitute for flying skills and judgment.  At the beginning of WWII, Wolfgang Langsweich wrote &#8220;Stick and Rudder&#8221; which is an understandable description of how an airplane actually flies, what the pilot can do to keep it flying, and, how to avoid a crash.  There were no glass panels, synthetic terrain or GPS then and the pilot had to quickly make the correct decisions to avoid disaster.  If you want to be a better, safer pilot, save some money and take a few glider lessons.  Without engine vibration and noise you will be able to feel and hear the forces that affect the glider and, hopefully, keep it in the air.  You will learn to estimate airspeed and attitude and predict stalls without reference even to the minimal steam gauges using sound and the forces operating on your body.  Even more, you will learn to anticipate what the glider will do before it does it.  The modern instruments can do many things to help the pilot, but they cannot replace flying skills.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Shook</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41533</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent Shook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2012 00:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There IS a way to figure out usage by type - And interestingly enough, I came up with this during a debate on the relative safety of the SR20 vs. the DA40. 

What I did is to look at the for-sale sites and put together a spreadsheet with the model year and TTAF for each tail number in the for sale listings. While it won&#039;t give a full picture of usage (planes being sold are often not being flown), it will give a very accurate picture of the relative usage of various models. Using GAMA sales data, you can also figure out good numbers for accident exposure over time.

FWIW, the claim that&#039;s been passed around about Cirri flying twice as much as other airplanes simply doesn&#039;t hold water. When I ran the numbers as above, the SR20&#039;s were flying 132 hours per year to the DA40&#039;s 124 - Pretty comparable for the relatively-small sample size.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There IS a way to figure out usage by type &#8211; And interestingly enough, I came up with this during a debate on the relative safety of the SR20 vs. the DA40. </p>
<p>What I did is to look at the for-sale sites and put together a spreadsheet with the model year and TTAF for each tail number in the for sale listings. While it won&#8217;t give a full picture of usage (planes being sold are often not being flown), it will give a very accurate picture of the relative usage of various models. Using GAMA sales data, you can also figure out good numbers for accident exposure over time.</p>
<p>FWIW, the claim that&#8217;s been passed around about Cirri flying twice as much as other airplanes simply doesn&#8217;t hold water. When I ran the numbers as above, the SR20&#8242;s were flying 132 hours per year to the DA40&#8242;s 124 &#8211; Pretty comparable for the relatively-small sample size.</p>
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		<title>By: grumpy</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41415</link>
		<dc:creator>grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2012 20:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you&#039;re a lefty, hand flying a Cirrus in heavy turbulance, how do you copy an ammended clearance from ATC?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re a lefty, hand flying a Cirrus in heavy turbulance, how do you copy an ammended clearance from ATC?</p>
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		<title>By: Cliff Biggs</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41357</link>
		<dc:creator>Cliff Biggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2012 16:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41357</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We seem to be missing a very big point. It&#039;s not the &quot;glass cockpit&quot; that is the problem with the SR22. It&#039;s basic pilot skills and not being able to &quot;go back to basics&quot;. Too many people, with too much money, with to little experience, think they can fly an SR22 in most any weather (on autopilot). I&#039;m not crucifying the airplane, it&#039;s a great airplane but it a very high performance airplane not to be treated lightly. A 172 is forgiving (due to its stable nature and slower speed) but an SR 22 is commensurate with the MU2. High speed, short coupled, things get out of shape fast and without basic flying skills and motor reflex instincts, tragedies happen. Both airplane are great modes of transportation but both require training AND experience.  200 or 300 hrs and an SR22 is an accident waiting to happen. All the training in the world can&#039;t make up for experience and glass cockpit issues go all the way back to the introduction of the 757. But it&#039;s still and experience issue with the SR22 accident rate. JMO]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We seem to be missing a very big point. It&#8217;s not the &#8220;glass cockpit&#8221; that is the problem with the SR22. It&#8217;s basic pilot skills and not being able to &#8220;go back to basics&#8221;. Too many people, with too much money, with to little experience, think they can fly an SR22 in most any weather (on autopilot). I&#8217;m not crucifying the airplane, it&#8217;s a great airplane but it a very high performance airplane not to be treated lightly. A 172 is forgiving (due to its stable nature and slower speed) but an SR 22 is commensurate with the MU2. High speed, short coupled, things get out of shape fast and without basic flying skills and motor reflex instincts, tragedies happen. Both airplane are great modes of transportation but both require training AND experience.  200 or 300 hrs and an SR22 is an accident waiting to happen. All the training in the world can&#8217;t make up for experience and glass cockpit issues go all the way back to the introduction of the 757. But it&#8217;s still and experience issue with the SR22 accident rate. JMO</p>
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		<title>By: Herb Ludgewait</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41328</link>
		<dc:creator>Herb Ludgewait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2012 05:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41328</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen to Tom&#039;s comments about the USAF.  Then the FAA gives them a free pass on a civilian CFI rating.  The only thing that will keep the accident rate down is AF instructors won&#039;t work hard enough to recommend applicants]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to Tom&#8217;s comments about the USAF.  Then the FAA gives them a free pass on a civilian CFI rating.  The only thing that will keep the accident rate down is AF instructors won&#8217;t work hard enough to recommend applicants</p>
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		<title>By: Viktor Rothe</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41325</link>
		<dc:creator>Viktor Rothe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2012 03:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s the pilot who gazes at the gauges instead of giving the aircraft the correct input, no matter what the gauges look like. Even the &quot; highway-in-the-sky&quot; technology won&#039;t help, if you forget to counteract the P-factor during take-off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the pilot who gazes at the gauges instead of giving the aircraft the correct input, no matter what the gauges look like. Even the &#8221; highway-in-the-sky&#8221; technology won&#8217;t help, if you forget to counteract the P-factor during take-off.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41323</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff&#039;s post about antilock brakes reminds me of my research for aircraft airbags.  A vendor offered a discount to install bag/belt combos, so I did some research.  The results were far less than conclusive.  

A note by one researcher analyzing NTSB data was that airbags were blamed for causing deaths in cars because they were sold as a substitute for seatbelts, which turned out to be a bad idea. 

 Airbags used in conjunction with a three-point harness  help prevent neck injuries, but the data is far from conclusive for aircraft.  I forget the numbers, but IIRC there was only one of about 30 airbag-equipped aircraft involved in accidents that MIGHT have reduced injury severity compared to a statistical unsurvivable head-on wreck.  The rest had side loads, and you need a side airbag to protect against sideloads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff&#8217;s post about antilock brakes reminds me of my research for aircraft airbags.  A vendor offered a discount to install bag/belt combos, so I did some research.  The results were far less than conclusive.  </p>
<p>A note by one researcher analyzing NTSB data was that airbags were blamed for causing deaths in cars because they were sold as a substitute for seatbelts, which turned out to be a bad idea. </p>
<p> Airbags used in conjunction with a three-point harness  help prevent neck injuries, but the data is far from conclusive for aircraft.  I forget the numbers, but IIRC there was only one of about 30 airbag-equipped aircraft involved in accidents that MIGHT have reduced injury severity compared to a statistical unsurvivable head-on wreck.  The rest had side loads, and you need a side airbag to protect against sideloads.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41321</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Mar 2012 02:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I saw the glass vs steam discussion  it reminded me of the A-10 warthog story:  The Hog is a low tech machine that gets the job done vs USAF high-tech alternatives  noteworthy for dissipating money.  A $20k JDAM vs $1.4 mil cruise missiles is another example, but that&#039;s not today&#039;s lesson.  But it&#039;s a good one worth googling.

By law the USAF flies all fixed wing stuff (Ok, the Navy stood up to them, but the Army caved in exchange for permission to fly helos).  The Hog is an Army close air support machine, able to kill tank crews with impunity, but by law the USAF flies and maintains it while holding their collective noses because it isn&#039;t fast or sleek or go high or well, you get the picture. No glass either.  Not a drop.  Maybe there is now because USAF had plans to upgrade it a few years ago, parallel to plans to get rid of it. 

 It&#039;s always a toss up which camp is winning.  I expect a compromise where they will re-wing, engine and instrument the Hog, then send them to AMARC to wait for the next war or destruction, depending on the salvage value of titanium.  

Too bad congress doesn&#039;t just make an exception and turn the Hog over to the Army where they don&#039;t seem to have a love affair going with high-tech stuff that doesn&#039;t work.  Take the F-22 oxygen generator system that causes hypoxia, or the F-35 that is so high-tech nobody can afford it.  Ok, to be fair, the USAF denies the F-22 O2 system causes hypoxia.  Instead it stops delivering oxygen.  (Said with a straight face to those wimpy fighter pilots gasping for air).  Similar logic blamed the F-22 pilot for crashing his ride when the system &#039;stopped delivering oxygen&#039; at 48kft.  The guy probably woke up just in time to say the fighter pilot&#039;s prayer.  Sometimes, technology is a solution in search for a problem.  In the case of the F-22 O2 system vs a LOX tank seems exactly that.  Could the &#039;glass cockpit&#039; also be such a thing?

In that light I applaud ASF&#039;s approach over that of the USAF.

   I found the below link that compared high tech vs low tech and the A-10.  Replace the asterisks with periods to get the link to work.

dcr*net/~stickmak/JOHT/joht11warthog*htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I saw the glass vs steam discussion  it reminded me of the A-10 warthog story:  The Hog is a low tech machine that gets the job done vs USAF high-tech alternatives  noteworthy for dissipating money.  A $20k JDAM vs $1.4 mil cruise missiles is another example, but that&#8217;s not today&#8217;s lesson.  But it&#8217;s a good one worth googling.</p>
<p>By law the USAF flies all fixed wing stuff (Ok, the Navy stood up to them, but the Army caved in exchange for permission to fly helos).  The Hog is an Army close air support machine, able to kill tank crews with impunity, but by law the USAF flies and maintains it while holding their collective noses because it isn&#8217;t fast or sleek or go high or well, you get the picture. No glass either.  Not a drop.  Maybe there is now because USAF had plans to upgrade it a few years ago, parallel to plans to get rid of it. </p>
<p> It&#8217;s always a toss up which camp is winning.  I expect a compromise where they will re-wing, engine and instrument the Hog, then send them to AMARC to wait for the next war or destruction, depending on the salvage value of titanium.  </p>
<p>Too bad congress doesn&#8217;t just make an exception and turn the Hog over to the Army where they don&#8217;t seem to have a love affair going with high-tech stuff that doesn&#8217;t work.  Take the F-22 oxygen generator system that causes hypoxia, or the F-35 that is so high-tech nobody can afford it.  Ok, to be fair, the USAF denies the F-22 O2 system causes hypoxia.  Instead it stops delivering oxygen.  (Said with a straight face to those wimpy fighter pilots gasping for air).  Similar logic blamed the F-22 pilot for crashing his ride when the system &#8216;stopped delivering oxygen&#8217; at 48kft.  The guy probably woke up just in time to say the fighter pilot&#8217;s prayer.  Sometimes, technology is a solution in search for a problem.  In the case of the F-22 O2 system vs a LOX tank seems exactly that.  Could the &#8216;glass cockpit&#8217; also be such a thing?</p>
<p>In that light I applaud ASF&#8217;s approach over that of the USAF.</p>
<p>   I found the below link that compared high tech vs low tech and the A-10.  Replace the asterisks with periods to get the link to work.</p>
<p>dcr*net/~stickmak/JOHT/joht11warthog*htm</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41313</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We tend to like what we got, but cockpit envy is always there regardless of effectiveness.  In reality we should buy what does the mission at the best price.  I fly in the mountains and find glass cockpits like the G1000 fragile, stupendously expensive to repair and distracting.  For that mission I find that a hand-held Garmin 696 in a steam-gage plane offers the same features at a fraction of the cost.    

I also fly lots of long cross country across multiple time zones and always encounter at least one frontal passage.  A G1000 is wonderful for that.  So is a Hand-held G-696 and a nav-tracking autopilot.  Again,  identical features as the G1000 rig except for the six-pack at a fraction of the price.

I&#039;ve had gremlins disable the transponder in a G1000 plane.  It only took a software reset to fix, but it also took a day on the phone finding the guy who could tell us how to do it.  

I originally thought a G1000 would be cheaper to own, but that&#039;s a myth.  Instead of a vacuum pump or iron gyros any mechanic can fix, you get a Line replaceable unit that MIGHT fix the problem for $3000 plus an $11,000 core charge.  Engine start using an APU making dirty power will do that.  Suddenly that vacuum system starts looking pretty good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We tend to like what we got, but cockpit envy is always there regardless of effectiveness.  In reality we should buy what does the mission at the best price.  I fly in the mountains and find glass cockpits like the G1000 fragile, stupendously expensive to repair and distracting.  For that mission I find that a hand-held Garmin 696 in a steam-gage plane offers the same features at a fraction of the cost.    </p>
<p>I also fly lots of long cross country across multiple time zones and always encounter at least one frontal passage.  A G1000 is wonderful for that.  So is a Hand-held G-696 and a nav-tracking autopilot.  Again,  identical features as the G1000 rig except for the six-pack at a fraction of the price.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve had gremlins disable the transponder in a G1000 plane.  It only took a software reset to fix, but it also took a day on the phone finding the guy who could tell us how to do it.  </p>
<p>I originally thought a G1000 would be cheaper to own, but that&#8217;s a myth.  Instead of a vacuum pump or iron gyros any mechanic can fix, you get a Line replaceable unit that MIGHT fix the problem for $3000 plus an $11,000 core charge.  Engine start using an APU making dirty power will do that.  Suddenly that vacuum system starts looking pretty good.</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Alburn</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427&#038;cpage=1#comment-41312</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Alburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2012 22:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/leadingedge/?p=2427#comment-41312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[After reading the entire report in addition to the 2 articles, plus all of the comments here and elsewhere, I have not changed my mind at all about the value (or lack of value) of glass in GA airplanes.  For IFR (whether or not in IMC), there’s undoubtedly a benefit, if the pilot has been thoroughly trained in the use of the glass panel.  But that’s a big “if”.  When I was a low time pilot, there was a certain amount of intrigue associated with complicated appearing “full IFR” panels, whether or not we could use all the bells and whistles.  Now we have people who have little use for and insufficient training to use glass panels, but boy are they ever cool!

What neither the report nor any of the articles or comments have touched upon, though, is the adverse effect that expensive glass panels may have on the ability to get new students who will become good, safe pilots.  If the airplanes have $75,000 panels in them, that cost must be passed on to the students.  But is a basic trainer that costs more because it has a $75,000 panel in it any better as a basic trainer than one that has basic VFR-only instrumentation?  Considering how unnecessary all those bells and whistles are to learning basic operational skills and basic navigation, I would argue that $75,000 panel unnecessarily raises the cost of instruction, which has to impact whether a student will start or finish, and most importantly, whether that student will become a good, safe pilot.

As soon as I started instructing, I became painfully aware that the more complicated the panel, the less time the student spent looking outside.  My favorite instructing tool became a dish towel, to put over the panel and force the student away from the panel.  It was a lot easier to teach basic stick and rudder skills, if the student wasn’t being distracted by unnecessarily referring to the panel.

The report, articles, and comments seem to bear this out, and I would summarize it this way, as advice to a student:  First learn to fly well, without reference to fancy panels, whether steam gauges or glass.  Then spend sufficient time to learn the ins and outs of the panel that you’re going to be using.  Then learn how to fly using that panel.  For most, that means obtaining an instrument rating and then using it to fly within the ATC system.  If you’re not going to fly on instruments, you don’t need a panel that allows you do that.  But if you’re not interested in flying on instruments, you definitely don’t need a fancy glass panel.

Glass panels have their place, but in my view, not for students or low time pilots.  Whether they are of any real benefit to the occasional IFR pilot has yet to be proven.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the entire report in addition to the 2 articles, plus all of the comments here and elsewhere, I have not changed my mind at all about the value (or lack of value) of glass in GA airplanes.  For IFR (whether or not in IMC), there’s undoubtedly a benefit, if the pilot has been thoroughly trained in the use of the glass panel.  But that’s a big “if”.  When I was a low time pilot, there was a certain amount of intrigue associated with complicated appearing “full IFR” panels, whether or not we could use all the bells and whistles.  Now we have people who have little use for and insufficient training to use glass panels, but boy are they ever cool!</p>
<p>What neither the report nor any of the articles or comments have touched upon, though, is the adverse effect that expensive glass panels may have on the ability to get new students who will become good, safe pilots.  If the airplanes have $75,000 panels in them, that cost must be passed on to the students.  But is a basic trainer that costs more because it has a $75,000 panel in it any better as a basic trainer than one that has basic VFR-only instrumentation?  Considering how unnecessary all those bells and whistles are to learning basic operational skills and basic navigation, I would argue that $75,000 panel unnecessarily raises the cost of instruction, which has to impact whether a student will start or finish, and most importantly, whether that student will become a good, safe pilot.</p>
<p>As soon as I started instructing, I became painfully aware that the more complicated the panel, the less time the student spent looking outside.  My favorite instructing tool became a dish towel, to put over the panel and force the student away from the panel.  It was a lot easier to teach basic stick and rudder skills, if the student wasn’t being distracted by unnecessarily referring to the panel.</p>
<p>The report, articles, and comments seem to bear this out, and I would summarize it this way, as advice to a student:  First learn to fly well, without reference to fancy panels, whether steam gauges or glass.  Then spend sufficient time to learn the ins and outs of the panel that you’re going to be using.  Then learn how to fly using that panel.  For most, that means obtaining an instrument rating and then using it to fly within the ATC system.  If you’re not going to fly on instruments, you don’t need a panel that allows you do that.  But if you’re not interested in flying on instruments, you definitely don’t need a fancy glass panel.</p>
<p>Glass panels have their place, but in my view, not for students or low time pilots.  Whether they are of any real benefit to the occasional IFR pilot has yet to be proven.</p>
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