Comments on: A bad roll and equally bad commentary

By: Steve

Steve — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:32:07 +0000

Earl, safety is paramount. Both yours and everyone around you. It is my opinion that because of the potential for a catastrophe, you should report this guy before he hurts himself or some else. I know I would have trouble with myself if this happened and I may have been able to prevent it. We have decision altitudes for a reason.

By: Earl

Earl — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 04:33:06 +0000

Reminds me of a designated FAA examiner, whose “thing”, is to have pilots descend to wheels touching runway, under the hood during all of his IFR check rides. Last year he collapsed the nose gear on his own personal Seneca during one of these approaches by letting the nose gear slam onto the runway. I was fore warned, but opted to use my Commanche for a IFR check ride anyway. I knew it was coming, but kind of assumed he could fly airplanes. When I finally realized my aircraft was not setup for wheel touch and before I could grab the yoke ( he had taken the controls to show me how it’s done), the nose gear slammed on the runway hard. I guess I’m wondering, should I report this. He continues to do this on all of his IFR checkrides. He does at least 5 a week.

By: Bruce Landsberg

Bruce Landsberg — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:22:04 +0000

I like John’s comment about the beast going crazy !!! We’re starting to see a bit of that.

Andrei – you are also correct that our memories are sometimes colored by revisionist history, but like a good attorney, a CFI should never let a student put him/her into a compromising position. We agree that there was no plan that we know of or it didn’t work – which isn’t any better.

Thanks for your thoughts

By: Gerard

Gerard — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:16:16 +0000

With good judgement and with a nod to the regs, I think it is important to pratice engine out scenarios, but there should be advance communication between left and right seats about what and how. I dont see much value in a CFI pulling a fast one, only mayhem and risk. If other pilots are anything like me you play out possible emergencies and your repsonse to them in your head over and over. A little practice now and then is all we need to do the right thing if the time comes.

As for talking to the media, the news people are going to put somebody on TV. If you can exercise good judgement, be a good spokeperson and stick to the facts….better one of us than some yahoo, otherwise no comment.

By: Joe H.Gutierrez

Joe H.Gutierrez — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:37:19 +0000

I had a cfi pull the power on me one dark night at about 200′ agl on take off in mountainous terrain, I immideately advanced the throttle slowly and carefully as to make sure the engine did’nt quit, Unbeknown to the cfi this aircraft had a carb. that was a little sensitve to abroubt changes, sometimes the engine would caugh and spit and then quit. After reestablishing climb, I had a few words with the cfi and directed him not to ever do that again or there would be consequences between him and I, he never did that again..The cfi is a human being just like me and any on else, he is also subject to errer. I personally would of never done that to any one unless I had asked him first if the aircraft is in good running and no problems..thank you.

By: Guy Meredith

Guy Meredith — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:10:53 +0000

Good article. I concur anything below 400′ is dumb unless you got 12000′ of runway or more.

By: Dick Bevington

Dick Bevington — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 18:40:33 +0000

Not mentioned is the PTS not to simulate the simulated engine failure below 400′

By: Michael Dithnot

Michael Dithnot — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:55:21 +0000

A critical engine failure on takeoff *might* happen once or twice in a pilot’s lifetime. I’ve been flying for over 40 years and have never had an engine failure. It mystifies me why the instructors and presumably the FAA insist on creating *actual* dangerous situations in the name of pilot skill evaluations.

Want to know one of the reasons people give up flying or stop their training? Try scaring the hell out of them by chopping the power on takeoff. I once had an instructor pull the power on a single and make me fly down to 100 ft above some farmers field before he restored the power. Ridiculous. And probably illegal.

I don’t think there is a single legitimate training lesson that can’t be taught at altitude or in a simulator. These dangerous evaluation practices have got to stop.

By: Bob Colman

Bob Colman — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:48:25 +0000

Bruce, your response is absolutly correct. The CFI was basically out of his mind to retard a throttle at that speed and height.
Many years ago (1968) we were doing an avionics check flight and the pilot decided to pull a engine…the next moment we were in a huge yaw…quite exciting moment, and really a dumb move.
A Duke on take off roll is an interesting beast, and the only control if you loose an engine at too low an airspeed is to pull the other and land straight ahead. No way to do any other ‘tricks’!
Always enjoy your articles, haven’t flown since I sold Depot Avionics, Inc to my son, but still enjoy looking!
Bob

By: Andrei Volkov

Andrei Volkov — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:40:05 +0000

Sadly, CFI cannot offer his version of the events. Pilot’s version may be colored by the fact that he now has to minimize damage to himself and his family – mental, social, financial. It looks like pre- and in-flight communication between the pilot and the CFI was seriously lacking. Who was agreed-upon Pilot In Command? What exactly did they plan to do on this flight? Perhaps just random things? If so, they both demonstrated to everybody what NOT to do. Then again, maybe investigators find some other plausible reason for the crash (jammed throttle?)
In any case, I agree that when local newspaper asks for comment, it is best to comment about people – how victims were doing good things for community, tell some uplifting personal story from the past, offer concern and condolences. Comments in local news stories should be about people, not planes. Unfortunately, some pilots care or know more about planes than people, so they comment on what they think they know.