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	<title>Comments on: Loss of tail rotor effectiveness</title>
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	<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717</link>
	<description>AOPA's Helicopter Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-2041</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2012 01:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-2041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is no substitute for good basic training, then for pilots to go out and use good pilot technique to avoid Loss Of Tail Rotor Effectiveness!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no substitute for good basic training, then for pilots to go out and use good pilot technique to avoid Loss Of Tail Rotor Effectiveness!</p>
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		<title>By: Mat</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1979</link>
		<dc:creator>Mat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a 1000hr fixed wing pilot and 200hr heli pilot owning an R44. Thankyou Bob for your set of explanations above. It has helped me understand a few things better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a 1000hr fixed wing pilot and 200hr heli pilot owning an R44. Thankyou Bob for your set of explanations above. It has helped me understand a few things better.</p>
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		<title>By: Wilbur Wright</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1952</link>
		<dc:creator>Wilbur Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 16:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1952</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not all helicopters are created equal with respect to tail rotor authority. The Bell 206 is legendary for its marginal tail rotor authority. Can it be flown safely? Sure, but the margin for error is smaller than in many other designs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all helicopters are created equal with respect to tail rotor authority. The Bell 206 is legendary for its marginal tail rotor authority. Can it be flown safely? Sure, but the margin for error is smaller than in many other designs.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Barbanes</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1951</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Barbanes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that is somehow doesn&#039;t seem fair to bash a dead pilot.  We tend to be extra-sympathetic to those of us who pay the ultimate price for doing what we do. And believe me, it gives me no pleasure to say what I said above about the pilot who crashed at BWI.  But I stand by my statements, as unkind as they may appear to be.

Philip and Al, I understand where you&#039;re coming from. Nobody likes armchair quarterbacks. But the fact is, the 500-hour BWI pilot crashed a perfectly good helicopter - killing himself and, I might add, HIS PASSENGER.  I criticize from the standpoint of an 11,000-hour helicopter pilot with over 7,000 hours in the 206 alone.  I&#039;m not some retired guy sniping from the sidelines; I&#039;m one who still flies for a living...AND currently flies a Bell 206B with what we call the &quot;small&quot; tail rotor (there are two sizes that B-models can have).  I often do exactly the same kind of flying that gets us in trouble: Hovering (or flying very slowly) low over the trees while surveying timberland. On those flights, I am hyper-aware of wind direction and acutely aware of how much left pedal I&#039;ve got in.  Any uncommanded right yaw will be cause to pull the trigger and get outta there. And I leave myself plenty of room to go. That comes with experience.  (And notice I say &quot;uncommanded&quot; and not &quot;unanticipated.&quot;  In such cases you *have* to anticipate the yaw.)  So far, in 30 years of doing this for a living I have not killed myself.
 
For what it&#039;s worth, I did not get thrown into the fray (released to fly solo as a commercial pilot) until I had 1,000 hours of total time - thank the insurance companies for that.  I don&#039;t know how the BWI pilot got insured with just over 500 hours, but apprently he did.  Maybe things have changed.  Would another 500 have made a difference?  Who knows.  But evidently he was in over his head on this flight.  Could I, &quot;Super Bob&quot; have saved the day?  Yes, and I have no doubt about it. I&#039;m sorry, but that&#039;s the truth.  I would not have (or more importantly I would not have let the pilot) put the ship in such a precarious position: downwind OGE hover at 250 feet agl just to get a photograph.  That&#039;s not smart.

Finally, let&#039;s tal about the Bell 206 and &quot;LTE.&quot;  I stand by my statement that the tail rotor NEVER stops working (sorry Mark).  The tail rotor does not stall.  Period.  Two things can happen in a 206: 

1) In quartering left headwinds, main rotor vortices can interact with and impinge the tail rotor thrust.  We feel this as yaw instability that makes our feet work hard. Weathervaning effect is still strong though, and the fuselage will resist turning to the right.  However, if the nose does start to yaw to the right, application of FULL left pedal will stop the rotation.  Why?  Because the tail rotor is still working!  As soon as the nose rotates to a certain point the main rotor vortices won&#039;t be being blown into the tail rotor anymore!  The key is to not let a yaw rate develop that full pedal cannot arrest.  If it does, push and hold full left pedal and reduce torque slightly.  If you&#039;re such a bonehead that it goes all the way around, then you&#039;re stupid and you&#039;ve really screwed up and now you better do some of that pilot &#039;stuff&#039; you get paid so well for and should have already been doing.

2)  In a right-rear quartering wind, the 206&#039;s huge vertical fin can blank off enough of the tail rotor that thrust is reduced.  We know this.  Adding a right-rear wind, that big vertical fin and weathervane effect can cause the helicopter to want to swap ends.  This is the situation in which our BWI pilot found himself.  But again, the tail rotor is still working back there.  As the aircraft comes around into the wind, holding FULL left pedal and reducing torque will stop the rotation.

Pilots are reluctant to make full control inputs.  There was a video on YouTube a while back of a ENG 206 pilot crashing upon landing in California. Luckily, his camerman was filming the landing and approach to the dolly. The pilot never quite got it stopped into a stabilized hover.  As he came up to his landing dolly, suddenly the aircraft started rotating to the right (but it did not suffer a tail rotor failure). It went &#039;round and &#039;round and ended up on its side.  The pilot reported that full left pedal did not stop the rotation. It was that damn 206&#039;s fault - with its too-weak tail rotor!  LTE! LTE!  Trouble was, in the video that the camerman shot the pilot&#039;s hairy legs could be seen (he was wearing shorts). The pedals were neutral.  He was just hanging on, along for the ride. The video evidence was contrary to his statement.  

I&#039;ve said before that there are no &quot;average&quot; helicopter pilots.  Helicopter pilots must be above-average aviators. You get really good or you get dead.  We like to assume that all aircraft are &quot;easy&quot; or &quot;safe&quot; to fly once you&#039;ve learned how, but helicopters are not. They can and will bite you badly at the slightest provocation or moment of inattention.  They are weird machines that take a long time to master - if ever.  The proof of this is that even high-time helicopter pilots crash due to &quot;simple&quot; pilot-error things.  And even at my stage of career, I still find myself saying, &quot;Man I&#039;ve got a lot to learn.&quot;  And it&#039;s true.

I feel badly for the inexperienced pilot at BWI. But like the Colgan pilot in Buffalo, he screwed up. Both put their aircraft into a position it didn&#039;t like.  And they both should have known better.  The very sad thing is that they did not.  Hey, it happens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that is somehow doesn&#8217;t seem fair to bash a dead pilot.  We tend to be extra-sympathetic to those of us who pay the ultimate price for doing what we do. And believe me, it gives me no pleasure to say what I said above about the pilot who crashed at BWI.  But I stand by my statements, as unkind as they may appear to be.</p>
<p>Philip and Al, I understand where you&#8217;re coming from. Nobody likes armchair quarterbacks. But the fact is, the 500-hour BWI pilot crashed a perfectly good helicopter &#8211; killing himself and, I might add, HIS PASSENGER.  I criticize from the standpoint of an 11,000-hour helicopter pilot with over 7,000 hours in the 206 alone.  I&#8217;m not some retired guy sniping from the sidelines; I&#8217;m one who still flies for a living&#8230;AND currently flies a Bell 206B with what we call the &#8220;small&#8221; tail rotor (there are two sizes that B-models can have).  I often do exactly the same kind of flying that gets us in trouble: Hovering (or flying very slowly) low over the trees while surveying timberland. On those flights, I am hyper-aware of wind direction and acutely aware of how much left pedal I&#8217;ve got in.  Any uncommanded right yaw will be cause to pull the trigger and get outta there. And I leave myself plenty of room to go. That comes with experience.  (And notice I say &#8220;uncommanded&#8221; and not &#8220;unanticipated.&#8221;  In such cases you *have* to anticipate the yaw.)  So far, in 30 years of doing this for a living I have not killed myself.</p>
<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I did not get thrown into the fray (released to fly solo as a commercial pilot) until I had 1,000 hours of total time &#8211; thank the insurance companies for that.  I don&#8217;t know how the BWI pilot got insured with just over 500 hours, but apprently he did.  Maybe things have changed.  Would another 500 have made a difference?  Who knows.  But evidently he was in over his head on this flight.  Could I, &#8220;Super Bob&#8221; have saved the day?  Yes, and I have no doubt about it. I&#8217;m sorry, but that&#8217;s the truth.  I would not have (or more importantly I would not have let the pilot) put the ship in such a precarious position: downwind OGE hover at 250 feet agl just to get a photograph.  That&#8217;s not smart.</p>
<p>Finally, let&#8217;s tal about the Bell 206 and &#8220;LTE.&#8221;  I stand by my statement that the tail rotor NEVER stops working (sorry Mark).  The tail rotor does not stall.  Period.  Two things can happen in a 206: </p>
<p>1) In quartering left headwinds, main rotor vortices can interact with and impinge the tail rotor thrust.  We feel this as yaw instability that makes our feet work hard. Weathervaning effect is still strong though, and the fuselage will resist turning to the right.  However, if the nose does start to yaw to the right, application of FULL left pedal will stop the rotation.  Why?  Because the tail rotor is still working!  As soon as the nose rotates to a certain point the main rotor vortices won&#8217;t be being blown into the tail rotor anymore!  The key is to not let a yaw rate develop that full pedal cannot arrest.  If it does, push and hold full left pedal and reduce torque slightly.  If you&#8217;re such a bonehead that it goes all the way around, then you&#8217;re stupid and you&#8217;ve really screwed up and now you better do some of that pilot &#8216;stuff&#8217; you get paid so well for and should have already been doing.</p>
<p>2)  In a right-rear quartering wind, the 206&#8242;s huge vertical fin can blank off enough of the tail rotor that thrust is reduced.  We know this.  Adding a right-rear wind, that big vertical fin and weathervane effect can cause the helicopter to want to swap ends.  This is the situation in which our BWI pilot found himself.  But again, the tail rotor is still working back there.  As the aircraft comes around into the wind, holding FULL left pedal and reducing torque will stop the rotation.</p>
<p>Pilots are reluctant to make full control inputs.  There was a video on YouTube a while back of a ENG 206 pilot crashing upon landing in California. Luckily, his camerman was filming the landing and approach to the dolly. The pilot never quite got it stopped into a stabilized hover.  As he came up to his landing dolly, suddenly the aircraft started rotating to the right (but it did not suffer a tail rotor failure). It went &#8217;round and &#8217;round and ended up on its side.  The pilot reported that full left pedal did not stop the rotation. It was that damn 206&#8242;s fault &#8211; with its too-weak tail rotor!  LTE! LTE!  Trouble was, in the video that the camerman shot the pilot&#8217;s hairy legs could be seen (he was wearing shorts). The pedals were neutral.  He was just hanging on, along for the ride. The video evidence was contrary to his statement.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said before that there are no &#8220;average&#8221; helicopter pilots.  Helicopter pilots must be above-average aviators. You get really good or you get dead.  We like to assume that all aircraft are &#8220;easy&#8221; or &#8220;safe&#8221; to fly once you&#8217;ve learned how, but helicopters are not. They can and will bite you badly at the slightest provocation or moment of inattention.  They are weird machines that take a long time to master &#8211; if ever.  The proof of this is that even high-time helicopter pilots crash due to &#8220;simple&#8221; pilot-error things.  And even at my stage of career, I still find myself saying, &#8220;Man I&#8217;ve got a lot to learn.&#8221;  And it&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>I feel badly for the inexperienced pilot at BWI. But like the Colgan pilot in Buffalo, he screwed up. Both put their aircraft into a position it didn&#8217;t like.  And they both should have known better.  The very sad thing is that they did not.  Hey, it happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred O. Bell</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1950</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred O. Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1950</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During helicopter flight training in 1953 we learned not to press our luck and hover out of ground effect with a tail wind. You are only inviting disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During helicopter flight training in 1953 we learned not to press our luck and hover out of ground effect with a tail wind. You are only inviting disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred O. Bell</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1949</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred O. Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1949</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[During helicopter flight training in 1953 we learned not to press your luck and hover out of ground effect with a tail wind. You only inviting disaster.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During helicopter flight training in 1953 we learned not to press your luck and hover out of ground effect with a tail wind. You only inviting disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Al</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1947</link>
		<dc:creator>Al</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1947</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, too bad &quot;Super Bob&quot; was not there. Like Underdog, he could have saved the day. If you want constructive criticism to be heard, you might consider avoiding comments like &quot; It’s blaming the helicopter for a bad pilot doing dumb things&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, too bad &#8220;Super Bob&#8221; was not there. Like Underdog, he could have saved the day. If you want constructive criticism to be heard, you might consider avoiding comments like &#8221; It’s blaming the helicopter for a bad pilot doing dumb things&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Borger</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1946</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Borger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 22:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The article appears to blame he helicopter because it states, &quot;The helicopter turned right&quot; and then it states the helicopter &quot;made a right rapid 180 degree pedal turn.&quot;  It further states that it &quot;initiated another rapid pedal turn to the right.&quot;

If the helicopter was making all those pedal turns then it must have been at fault.  Pedal turns could have been made only by  the pilot, not the helicopter, unless it was an early A model 206 with boosted pedals.  Obviously the pilot did all those things, not the helicopter.  Bob is right on the money in his post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article appears to blame he helicopter because it states, &#8220;The helicopter turned right&#8221; and then it states the helicopter &#8220;made a right rapid 180 degree pedal turn.&#8221;  It further states that it &#8220;initiated another rapid pedal turn to the right.&#8221;</p>
<p>If the helicopter was making all those pedal turns then it must have been at fault.  Pedal turns could have been made only by  the pilot, not the helicopter, unless it was an early A model 206 with boosted pedals.  Obviously the pilot did all those things, not the helicopter.  Bob is right on the money in his post.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1945</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure why you believe the article blames the aircraft; it seems quite clear that the article was addressed to pilots in that &quot;Any pilot performing a similar mission needs to understand the aerodynamics and limitations of maneuvering at slow speeds.&quot;  &quot;The tail rotor NEVER stops producing thrust&quot; isn&#039;t quite the whole truth - the thrust it is able to produce can vary significantly based on weather and aircraft orientation.  Managing that is what we pilots get paid for.  Failing to gets us published in the NTSB database.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure why you believe the article blames the aircraft; it seems quite clear that the article was addressed to pilots in that &#8220;Any pilot performing a similar mission needs to understand the aerodynamics and limitations of maneuvering at slow speeds.&#8221;  &#8220;The tail rotor NEVER stops producing thrust&#8221; isn&#8217;t quite the whole truth &#8211; the thrust it is able to produce can vary significantly based on weather and aircraft orientation.  Managing that is what we pilots get paid for.  Failing to gets us published in the NTSB database.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1944</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/helicopter/?p=717#comment-1944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will we ever run out of &quot;expert&quot; Monday Morning Quarterbacks?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will we ever run out of &#8220;expert&#8221; Monday Morning Quarterbacks?</p>
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