Comments on: Surprising Cirrus Stats

By: Emanuel

Emanuel — Tue, 09 Apr 2013 15:12:19 +0000

Emanuel…

…

By: 1553

1553 — Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:13:36 +0000

There should really be more awareness for these tragic and unnecessary deaths.

By: Alex Kovnat

Alex Kovnat — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:55:03 +0000

If drops of water freezing to ice on a plastic wing is more of a problem then one has with aluminum airplanes, i.e. Cessna 172, the next question is: Are the Cirrus wing and other outer surfaces unpainted? If so, then could one reduce the icing tendency of Cirrus wings by painting them, much like one normally has a paint finish on an aluminum aircraft?

By: richard mcglaughlin

richard mcglaughlin — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 15:10:18 +0000

Another thought- too many Cirrus accidents occur with an instructor in the right seat. I wonder if plenty qualified and proficient CFIs are distracted by all the bells and whistles.

By: richard mcglaughlin

richard mcglaughlin — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:38:46 +0000

This is an interesting compilation of accident stats, collected and disseminated for free by a volunteer aviation enthusiast with a careful eye. By default, it is a retrospective, uncontrolled study study, but a good look at the numbers, and, carried out over years, it is beginning to tell us something- the weight of the facts themselves becomes convincing.
Planes: Cirrus sold over 4000 of these expensive technically advanced plastic planes, and with an extra safety feature. Yet the accident rates are sadly comparable to the ancient design spam cans, The sad litany of causes is identical to other HP planes- good machines flown into bad things- clouds, ice, granite.
The spin and wet wing arguments are completely bogus- no difference in Cirrus spin or burn rates.
Though plastic wings do collect ice a little faster, and shed it a little slower than Aluminum.
The excellent piece featuring the Cirrus Norden, CA accident on the AOPA safety site may make it seem commoner by association, but this ice accretion propensity has not led to more Cirrus accidents than other HP types.
Flying any single engine piston in ice results in death in maybe 1% of instances. Like those odds? Pick any plane, and fly it, and I’ll pick any plane and avoid the ice- see how it goes, but don’t blame the plane.
Pilots: There is s preponderance of technically inclined wealthy people who own and fly Cirrus, and the marketing was aimed at them- opening up the planes and GA to new pilots. Despite the general derision heaped upon these pilots, they don’t crash as disproportionately as predicted- one of Mr Beach’s many interesting findings.
COPA membership is statistically safer- the reasons for this are open to interpretation, but motivated learners probably self-select. I wonder if this is so for active AOPA members, too.
Parachutes: Everybody blames the wives for the chute- macho boys that we are. The argument that they allow riskier flight may or may not be valid but it s irrefutable. Fools will be fools.
But think of the normal flight regimes with some plain vanilla increased risk- in IMC, or at night, or over the mountains, and possibly over large bodies of warm water- a chute is a real benefit- the last trick in your bag of tricks. A life saver.
And the insurance companies love it- nothing costs like dead people.
So thank you, BRS, for lowering our rates.

By: John McNerney

John McNerney — Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:16:21 +0000

I always wonder when I see stats published such as “Pilots who do not participate in COPA safety activities are four times more likely to have a fatal accident”. The implication, or in some cases the outright statement, is that it is the training that accounts for this difference. While I don’t doubt there is real positive value in the training, it’s also likely that some (if not most?) of the difference is the fact that conscientious pilots are more likely to take the training, and those who have a less safety-oriented attitude are less likely to do so. That, is the training may be as much a symptom/indicator of the pilot’s approach to aviation as it is the cause of the reduced accident rate.

By: Martin Smith

Martin Smith — Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:36:03 +0000

I’d still rather hunt with Cheney than fly a Cirrus…. I hope they go out of business, and AOPA too, for selling out, and having marginal competence…

By: Dave

Dave — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 13:56:39 +0000

The study showed a relatively high percentage of recent fatal accidents occurred during landing. However the author didn’t address how many of these might have been survivable if the planes hadn’t caught fire.

That “elephant in the room” (Cirrus wet wing gas tanks, where the tanks are nothing more than voids between fiberglass) was ignored.

By: Jay

Jay — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:02:29 +0000

Let’s clear up a few myths here. First of all, a 10,000 hour pilot can still be very inexperienced, even if he doesn’t log schaeffer time. Secondly, it is only a matter of time before any piston engine airplane crashes if it consistently flies in icing conditions. You might get away with it a few times, and scare yourself a few more times if you have enough sense to be scared, but your day is coming. Most really high time pilots get their experience in turbine powered airplanes that can handle a considerable amount of ice before crashing. That means that while they have lots of experience in turbine powered airplanes, when they regress back to flying a cirrus they just assume that the TKS fluid will keep them out of trouble on this fancy new glass cockpit, single-engine wonderplane. Taint so. A Cirrus will ice up and come out of the sky just as quickly and maybe even more so as any other non-ice-equipped air machine. And what makes it even more interesting is that when you pull that overhead panic lever in icing conditions to save your neck, very likely you have just iced up two air foils instead of just one. And as far as I know, you can’t cut the chute loose and start over if you happen to be fortunate enough to break out in warmer air below. So now you are just along for the ride in a high dollar, iced up, single engine 6 banger with a cute little glass cockpit that will show you in living color what your final flight path looked like. Can anyone here tell me what it feels like to be hanging from an iced up parachute?

By: NEBUREX

NEBUREX — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:15:57 +0000

Over the years I’ve had the opportunity and at times, the blessing, to fly with various pilots and instructors. As there are pilots and than there are PILOTS, there are instructors and than there are INSTRUCTORS. I’ve flown with some I wouldn’t trust on a simple X-country, and there some I would fly through the gates of hell. Crosby M. Kearsley, in the post above is one of those elite, a great stick in IMC. If that’s you Crosby, out of KCDW, AKA Bing, than Merry Christmas and God Bless.