Comments on: How to discourage a potential student

By: Greg

Greg — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:02:09 +0000

Anyone else see a pattern going on here? All the CFIs are saying in order to really get the most out of it you need to try to fly twice a week. All the non-CFIs are telling stories of how they were able to get the training done in a year or so flying once a well while walking up hill t both ways to the airport in the snow.

I think it may be closer to the truth that the flight school explained that he could fly once a week but he (the customer) would see little progress and flying twice a week or more will provide better results. But the customer only heard “flying once a week won’t do you any good”.

As a CFI I see this all the time not only with current students but with potential students as well.

The first two things a potential student asks are (in this order) :
1) How much does it cost?
2) how long does it take?

And I follow with – it takes a minimum of 40 hours, most people are closer to 55 hours before finishing and the cost is between $8000 and $10,000 depending on a number of factors and how often you choose to fly.

What the potential customer hears is “$10,000 and can’t tell you how long it will take”.

I’m not a time builder, I do this mostly part time for the fun of it.. I will take any student wanting to learn.. Be it a once a week student or a twice a day for 3 day student.. But I always tell them the same thing… How much and how long will largely depend on you. I’m just here to insure you learn what is needed.

By: Nate

Nate — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:55:38 +0000

One further oar I’d like to toss in. During my primary training there were several occasions where I didn’t fly for two weeks or better- due to aircraft or instructor unavailability, or bad weather. Is this notion of flying more than weekly realistic? All the desire and money won’t help when your CFI breaks his ankles in a non-flying accident, or you get two weeks worth of high winds and low ceilings at the critical pre-solo juncture.

By: Andy Crane

Andy Crane — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:42:00 +0000

I’m sure this whole thing is an case of “failure to communicate!” I’m sure that the school pointed out and everyone will agree, as a general rule you need to fly at least two to three hours a week to hit that magic 40hr target. I doubt tho, they would have refused to accept a paying customer regardless of the hours intended to fly. I’m sure they would have taken his one hour per week rental and flight instructor fees. Sounds like the student may have lacked a little motivation, he was not the first to be told that and didn’t give up. I was told the same thing and I got my private ticket flying once a week, sometimes missing weeks or sometimes a couple times a week whatever time and money allowed.
I’ve always recommended that if you are not planning on flying for a career, stay away from the schools and find an independent instructor, they are everywhere.

By: Bob H.

Bob H. — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:11:43 +0000

It’s not clear to me that anything has really been lost here, especially given only one side of the discussion. I think a few moments of introspection and reflection should be taken. Do we really need more pilots that don’t actually fly once they earn their license? We all know that having a baby and flying are not economically compatible, so I fail to see the benefits of encouraging a course of action in these circumstances. Our prospective pilot should be encouraged to keep his/her priorities in their current order.

So, I think expectations were set correctly, if not perfectly, and if there is one thing that this industry could use more of is integrity in setting expectations. The flying business is replete with stories of the consequences of “the bare minimum”. Contrast USA1549 v. CJC3407 for a painful example of well-prepared versus bare minimum.

Frankly, I see this all the time – individuals that have decided to follow their interest in aviation while investing the least amount of resources possible, constantly espousing the joy of flying in one breath and whining about the cost (or the pay) in the next. These pilots show up at the airport as if it were Wally World, looking for the sunny face and the price roll-back sign.

And yet, on these very blogs we also wonder why CFI pay is so low? The safety records associated to this point speak for themselves, too.

So, with the costs of liability being what they are, I am seeing a trend in the industry to work with those pilots that have the resources to go the distance, and beyond. These are lucrative customers, and the resource shortage in CFIs will only serve to reward those businesses that are selective in maximizing the return on the opportunity cost of time.

Instead of encouraging this student to approach this in the typical got-to-have-immediate-self-gratification way – will we ever learn? – the student should be encouraged to invest his flying nest-egg in TIPS, and add to it until s/he can make the commitment in time and expense to become a safe, and flying pilot.

Finally, I am not saying that flying needs to be unnecessarily expensive, and I am not saying that we shouldn’t encourage prospective pilots.

I am opposed to setting expectations at the expense of proper training.

I think some collective self-reflection on that point is in order.

By: David

David — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:09:40 +0000

I learned to fly in Pinellas county and know most of the schools, it dosen’t surprise me that this happened, it is a normal response of flight schools locally. I have had the same problems with many flight schools all over Florida, apparently when you become a professional pilot you don’t have to care anymore. I normally suggest that these flight school employees and owners look at how other businesses conduct themselves.

By: Nate

Nate — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 02:26:03 +0000

I appreciate the sincerity of all who posted here. I’m certain I could have finished faster had I gone through an accelerated training program, but on my salary, it was never gonna happen.

I have been an airport tire kicker since I was old enough to ride a bicycle, back then peering through airplane windows on the line was not prohibited, but encouraged! There was a big green and white Aero Commander on the ramp and I wondered how anyone could fly that big honkin’ thing.

Now, over 30 years later, I just got my multi-ticket, and I’m working on my instrument rating. In the interim I got my glider and ASEL ratings. All of them flying once a week, because that is the time and treasure I can invest. One thing that helped me was to read, read, read everything I could on the subject. I still remember the Flying mag my mom bought me in 1978. It had a Piper Aztec on the cover.

One thing that has not been mentioned is the quality of PATIENCE. Yeah, its going to take you a little longer, but that’s really ok, because honestly, you shouldn’t go to the airport with the expectation that you are going to fly every time. I took my first glider lesson in September 2006, and got my last rating last August. Its a novel way of avoiding BFR’s!

Oh yeah, last month I logged 4.0 hours PIC in an AC50

By: ToddSullivan

ToddSullivan — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:38:24 +0000

Once I graduated from college and had a job I started my training. I was lucky to find an instructor whose interest was in teaching (which is not necessarily limited to those not building time). My time and budget allowed flying once every week or two. I started in September, earned my ticket in March, with 43 hours of flight time. I think that individual motivation plays more role in finishing the training than most anything else. I (and my instructor) took every aspect of flight very seriously while still allowing it to be fun, without pressure to fly more. More frequency was certainly encouraged, and I understood that I could finish “faster” in calender time, but I did get to enjoy instruction across a decent range of weather conditions/seasons. Anyway, beyond the rambling everyone learns differently. Everyone should be encouraged and a good teacher will discover an individual’s best learning style. CFI’s should be honest and up front about frequency’s effect on overall progress but should never discourage someone who has clear limitations in time or funding for an endeavor that costs so much of both. I am disappointed by some of the comments that suggest that my pattern might not have been acceptable at their school. I beleive myself to be a good, safe pilot, despite or because of my training history.

By: Phil Costello

Phil Costello — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 22:03:45 +0000

I am one of the fortunate students to come across a great instructor right out of the shoot. I was a flight sim junkie for many years and had told my lovely wife that I would love to try flying a real plane someday to see how realistic the flight simulator was. She surprised me with an introductory flight for my birthday nd the hook was set. I was in a bit of a predicament in the fact that I had the funds to fly however much I wanted but I did not have the time. My private license took me just over 50 hours to complete in just under one year mainly flying once a week. When I went for my instrument rating i had started, took about six months off, and then finished in one big push at the end. I had found a new instructor who was very willing to be there early in the morning and finsih up my last 15 or so hours in about six days. By far this was the better learning enviroment to stay proficient and I finished my instrument ticket in 42 hours. I just feel it is important for all of us who enjoy this hobby to keep ANYONE who is interested involved in flying. If that means once a week then so be it. I continually take friends and family flying now and have always been accesible to anyone I know to sit down and talk about this great adventure.

By: David Boggs

David Boggs — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 16:10:56 +0000

I was in a similar situation learning to fly by going once a week. Fortunately I learned to fly in a small town that didn’t have a suggested flight time per week. If you decide it is right for you to start flying, I have two suggestions. Suggestion 1: When your instructor says you are close to solo, save up enough to spend a week at your school, spending at least 2 hours learning on the ground and one hour flying per day. Do the same when you are ready to take your FAA flight test. Suggestion 2: Spend at least 15-30 minutes per day flying an airplane in your mind with your eyes shut, remembering everything that you did that went right and wrong during your last lesson. This worked very well for me, instead of taking the typical 80 hours for this typical situation, it only took me 50. You will learn slower, and it will take more time but it is definitly worth while and most excitingly fun!

By: Tom Inglima

Tom Inglima — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:43:20 +0000

Too bad for the school in sunny Pinellas County. I started on Thanksgiving day 1956 and finally got the Private on August 31st 1958 with just over 58 hours. A little longer than many people in those days. I soloed before I was 17, made the money to fly delivering the Miami News (Miami’s long gone afternoon newspaper)

As a CFI over the years I saw that a students progress depends more on thier enthusiasim and desire than frequency of flight.

I instructed in Army A Phase (Primary) and C Phase (Multiengine-Instrument) and no doubt flying and going to ground school five days a week will result in less total hours, but quality of instuction also plays a major role.

If a person can fly once a month and is motivated why not do it? It may take a few extra hours flying but as long as they make progress and are happy with it, that seems great to me.