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	<title>Comments on: Making sense of the Eclipse drama</title>
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	<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672</link>
	<description>Online perspective from the editors of "AOPA Pilot".</description>
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		<title>By: teksty z linkiem</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-55690</link>
		<dc:creator>teksty z linkiem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-55690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting website, i have bookmarked your site for future referrence :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting website, i have bookmarked your site for future referrence <img src='http://blog.aopa.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Plato Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-49367</link>
		<dc:creator>Plato Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 00:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-49367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a blog on a similar topic. Maybe we can exchange links?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a blog on a similar topic. Maybe we can exchange links?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Joseph Reiplinger</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-24042</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Reiplinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-24042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t understand the logic of throwing your potential customers to the lions.  How will the NEW company ever obtain customers?  Are there really people out there that would be willing to pay money to a business that clearly demonstrates ability to lie, cheat and steal? 

Being witness to such nonsense should shake up any potential customers.  I keep hoping that reason will prevail and the public will realize that our no responsibility society must come to an end.

It&#039;s not okay that padding of select pockets with money STOLEN from customers or suppliers.

What happened to morality?   It appears that has been replaced by the code of whatever you can get away with...  A legal license to steal.  No consequences.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t understand the logic of throwing your potential customers to the lions.  How will the NEW company ever obtain customers?  Are there really people out there that would be willing to pay money to a business that clearly demonstrates ability to lie, cheat and steal? </p>
<p>Being witness to such nonsense should shake up any potential customers.  I keep hoping that reason will prevail and the public will realize that our no responsibility society must come to an end.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not okay that padding of select pockets with money STOLEN from customers or suppliers.</p>
<p>What happened to morality?   It appears that has been replaced by the code of whatever you can get away with&#8230;  A legal license to steal.  No consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Buster Offutt</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23798</link>
		<dc:creator>Buster Offutt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:43:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where is the &#039;&#039;BAILOUT&#039;&#039; money for these guys?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is the &#8221;BAILOUT&#8221; money for these guys?</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Rossi</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23540</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Rossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Being the owner of a Columbia-now Cessna-400, and having lived through Columbia&#039;s Chapter 11, I thank my lucky stars that the company was purchased by Cessna whom, in contrast to Eclipse, went out of their way to assure us Columbia owners that all warranties would be honored, parts would be available, etc. 

Question-where was the aviation press when this story was evolving? With the exception of ahighly critical article in Aviation Week last year, and the recent Teal Report, I cannot recall reading anything other than encouraging and in some cases glowing coverge of Eclipse and how it was going to &quot;revolutionize&quot; aviation. It didn&#039;t seem to bother many of the reporters that the company would not offer demonstration flights in the aircraft to the press, did not do a good job of explaining the numerous program delays (I was at AOPA in Palm Springs in, I think, 2004, just after the first &quot;flight&quot; of the 500 with its original engines, when it was already obvious to the company that the engines were inadequate, but of course the sales force was touting the &quot;ongoing flight test program&quot; and specifically denying any problems with the engines. Yeah, it&#039;s marketing, but its also lying), and inexplicibly spent time and $$$ developing the 400 before even getting the 500 certified. Makes one wonder about the independence of the press.....and brings back painful memories of other debacles, like the BD-5.....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being the owner of a Columbia-now Cessna-400, and having lived through Columbia&#8217;s Chapter 11, I thank my lucky stars that the company was purchased by Cessna whom, in contrast to Eclipse, went out of their way to assure us Columbia owners that all warranties would be honored, parts would be available, etc. </p>
<p>Question-where was the aviation press when this story was evolving? With the exception of ahighly critical article in Aviation Week last year, and the recent Teal Report, I cannot recall reading anything other than encouraging and in some cases glowing coverge of Eclipse and how it was going to &#8220;revolutionize&#8221; aviation. It didn&#8217;t seem to bother many of the reporters that the company would not offer demonstration flights in the aircraft to the press, did not do a good job of explaining the numerous program delays (I was at AOPA in Palm Springs in, I think, 2004, just after the first &#8220;flight&#8221; of the 500 with its original engines, when it was already obvious to the company that the engines were inadequate, but of course the sales force was touting the &#8220;ongoing flight test program&#8221; and specifically denying any problems with the engines. Yeah, it&#8217;s marketing, but its also lying), and inexplicibly spent time and $$$ developing the 400 before even getting the 500 certified. Makes one wonder about the independence of the press&#8230;..and brings back painful memories of other debacles, like the BD-5&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: HeloCaptain</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23536</link>
		<dc:creator>HeloCaptain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23536</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Phil, &quot;The US code encourages companies to trade in ways that many consider irresponsible...&quot;

It is unfortunate that the most irresponsible officers of this corporation are going to leave with full pockets while the customers, suppliers and employees (if any are stupid enough to hang around) will end up having to purchase their own KY lube.

While I generally do not wish good karma upon attorneys, I do hope that some lawyer can figure out a way to successfully make the corporate officers &quot;feel the pain,&quot; with the best outcome being some personal RESPONSIBILITY.   

Tis a shame the way that the U.S. culture (as evolved by our nanny federal government) encourages, &quot;not my fault&quot; irresponsibility.  

[Gee, maybe Eclipse should just self-identify as a bank and get bail-out money. It worked for AmEx!]

Unfortunately, I think that Eclipse&#039;s actions will have fatal consequences for the entire VLJ concept.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Phil, &#8220;The US code encourages companies to trade in ways that many consider irresponsible&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that the most irresponsible officers of this corporation are going to leave with full pockets while the customers, suppliers and employees (if any are stupid enough to hang around) will end up having to purchase their own KY lube.</p>
<p>While I generally do not wish good karma upon attorneys, I do hope that some lawyer can figure out a way to successfully make the corporate officers &#8220;feel the pain,&#8221; with the best outcome being some personal RESPONSIBILITY.   </p>
<p>Tis a shame the way that the U.S. culture (as evolved by our nanny federal government) encourages, &#8220;not my fault&#8221; irresponsibility.  </p>
<p>[Gee, maybe Eclipse should just self-identify as a bank and get bail-out money. It worked for AmEx!]</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I think that Eclipse&#8217;s actions will have fatal consequences for the entire VLJ concept.</p>
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		<title>By: Sidney Snith</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23507</link>
		<dc:creator>Sidney Snith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, you never saw this sort of behavior from Piper during their hard times.  Sure makes you appreciate guys like Beech and Cessna.  It always did look like a foreign job to me.  Ten years from now it will be referred to as the Russian built Eclipse.  Say what is the Russian word for an eclipse?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, you never saw this sort of behavior from Piper during their hard times.  Sure makes you appreciate guys like Beech and Cessna.  It always did look like a foreign job to me.  Ten years from now it will be referred to as the Russian built Eclipse.  Say what is the Russian word for an eclipse?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Tipton</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23502</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Tipton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chapter 11 is just a form of legal theft.  The suppliers, employees, and customers will all be left to swing in the wind with little or no recourse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chapter 11 is just a form of legal theft.  The suppliers, employees, and customers will all be left to swing in the wind with little or no recourse.</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23500</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Makes you just want to go back to the Experimental/Homebuilt days.
What a bunch of scum bags these CEO&#039;s are. I hope they never sell another plane.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes you just want to go back to the Experimental/Homebuilt days.<br />
What a bunch of scum bags these CEO&#8217;s are. I hope they never sell another plane.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Solomon</title>
		<link>http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672&#038;cpage=1#comment-23496</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.aopa.org/blog/?p=672#comment-23496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The timing of the chapter 11 filing straight after the European approval is not in the least coincidental.  Companies planning for chapter 11 (yes this would have been planned in detail) will often time the bankruptcy to its maximum advantage.  In this case the EASA certification has very kindly been paid for by those hapless customers and suppliers who have money owed to them.  A filing before EASA certification would have required money from the new company which would have been secured as opposed to the &quot;free&quot;, unsecured money, pre-bankruptcy.  

In countries such as the UK, Directors can be held personally responsible for debts incurred if they continue to trade once it had become clear that the company cannot meet its obligations &quot;as and when they fall due&quot; (in other words insolvent).  The US code encourages companies to trade in ways that many consider irresponsible including allowing insolvent companies to choose when they file and even allows the continued ordering and receiving of products that the company knows will not be paid for.   

A number of people will make a significant amount of money from this bankruptcy and a much larger number will be thrown into financial distress.  Do not expect any sympathy or assistance from the Chapter 11 process.  The first thing the company will do is appoint their pre-agreed attorneys and other advisors, bring in friendly financial backers and ask the judge to allow them to continue to manage the business (&quot;Debtor in possession&quot;).  The amounts paid to each of these &quot;in possession&quot; stakeholders will generally make your eyes water.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The timing of the chapter 11 filing straight after the European approval is not in the least coincidental.  Companies planning for chapter 11 (yes this would have been planned in detail) will often time the bankruptcy to its maximum advantage.  In this case the EASA certification has very kindly been paid for by those hapless customers and suppliers who have money owed to them.  A filing before EASA certification would have required money from the new company which would have been secured as opposed to the &#8220;free&#8221;, unsecured money, pre-bankruptcy.  </p>
<p>In countries such as the UK, Directors can be held personally responsible for debts incurred if they continue to trade once it had become clear that the company cannot meet its obligations &#8220;as and when they fall due&#8221; (in other words insolvent).  The US code encourages companies to trade in ways that many consider irresponsible including allowing insolvent companies to choose when they file and even allows the continued ordering and receiving of products that the company knows will not be paid for.   </p>
<p>A number of people will make a significant amount of money from this bankruptcy and a much larger number will be thrown into financial distress.  Do not expect any sympathy or assistance from the Chapter 11 process.  The first thing the company will do is appoint their pre-agreed attorneys and other advisors, bring in friendly financial backers and ask the judge to allow them to continue to manage the business (&#8220;Debtor in possession&#8221;).  The amounts paid to each of these &#8220;in possession&#8221; stakeholders will generally make your eyes water.</p>
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