Comments on: The Sweeps Debonair: Sign of a Trend?

By: Steve

Steve — Fri, 09 Nov 2012 00:24:40 +0000

In response to Mike, thpse two old gentlemen wit the 182 probably have been together with the airplane for many years almost like a marriage. They are quite used to each other. So, they likely view any stranger offering to join in as an unkown third wheel. mNo matter how benificial it would be, they just don’t want to now justify themselves to a new partner on how they operate the airplane or accomadate a new partner in anyway. Too bad as they will soon pay the price of neglecting their airplane.

By: mike

mike — Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:59:05 +0000

Here in Memphis I had a friend tell me about a couple of older gentlemen who owned a 182 at a local field and weren’t flying it much. I got a phone number of one of the partners and found out that the other partner had lost his medical. Try as I might to convince the flying partner to allow me to buy in or at least buy time on their a/c I could not persuade them. Even when offering my A&P services free to help them with mx I could not get them to see this was a good deal for all. The aircraft sits on flat tires outside rotting away. I just don’t understand it.

By: Mark C

Mark C — Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:25:38 +0000

Well, looking on the bright side, as a 51 year old fairly new pilot, what I get out of this article is that there should be a pretty good supply of affordable used aircraft for the next few years while I figure out what set of compromises best suits my flying needs and convince my wife that I really do need an airplane other than the Champ I’m in partnership on.

By: Randall Garriott

Randall Garriott — Wed, 31 Oct 2012 22:51:32 +0000

Guys, I read your comments & weep.

These fixed costs ( tie downs or hangars ), operational costs ( fuel, oil, engine depreciation) and ” relational costs” ( insurance) are the reason we all neeed to be in a good flying club & spread every cost that is not a direct result of air time… and if we take a flying buddy along, we can halve the air time co$t$, too !

Sorry if you live in an area where ” nobody” flies – RECRUIT !!!

By: Larry Mast

Larry Mast — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 04:34:11 +0000

I didn’t start flying until I was 45. My spouse gave me lessons in a float plane. Before I had my license, I bought a partnership in a C35 Bonanza. As partnerships go, they change. It ended up with just two of us. We sold our C35 and bought a 36 Bonanza. My partner was instrument rated and encouraged me to get my rating. When I received my rating we would fly together to keep our skills up and maintain our currency. Living in the Northwest, having an instrument rating is almost a necessity if you want to fly east, because of our weather and the mountains. In September of each year we would pack our Jepps, golf clubs and just fly for a week. Our spouses had no interest in going with us. We flew all over the US, not knowing where we were going to go until we filed our flight plan. Eleven years ago that all changed when my partner had a stroke. I now own the plane, but I must admit, I do not fly it as much as I used to. I do not have anyone to regularly fly with, so maintaining currency is a big challenge. The expense of maintaining my plane is not the obstacle but having someone to fly with is. I have two grown sons with young families, whose spouses are concerned about the safety of GA. Their spouses concern about safety and the expense associated with owning an airplane prevent them from taking up flying.

By: Pat Weddle

Pat Weddle — Sun, 28 Oct 2012 01:20:44 +0000

After reading Tom Horne’s article I wondered if he had interviewed me for the piece. My airplane partner, Jim and I flew our 67 Debonair for 30 years. We loved that plane. But, maintenance costs, poor quality parts and fuel costs had almost (but not quite) taken the fun out of flying and, in June, we sold our old friend. Since part of the fun of flying was ownership and since we still loved flying we purchased a Technam P2002 Sierra LSA. The fun is back! Fuel burn of 4.5 gal./hr vs. 12.5 in the Debbie, auto gas at about $1 per gallon less than 100 LL, modern affordable technology, simple but robust all metal construction, etc., has made the experience pretty sweet so far. Downsides like 2 place vs. 4 and 120 knots vs. 150 aren’t lost on us but our wives never shared our flying passion and we don’t fly far anymore anyway.

BTW, our Deb had the 260 HP Continental which really is a better match than the stock IO 470K with no appreciable difference in fuel burn.

Airplane partnerships and LSA’s are keeping flying affordable for those of us who love to fly but hate living in poverty because of it.

By: Adam Randall

Adam Randall — Sat, 27 Oct 2012 14:54:21 +0000

I’m 35 years old and in my 9th year of aircraft ownership – a Mooney 201 now, but had a Mooney M20c for the first 3 years. i budget roughly 25k per year to the airplane, which is a significant investment, but we do around 20 trips per year and the airplane allows us to spend time with our families back home. As a younger generation aviator I will be looking for a newer airframe than my 1989 201 for my next bird. When most of the GA fleet ages to 40+ years, I think the market may turn for newer airframes, but the older birds will continue to decline – especially the x-country aicraft with old and outdated equip.
Adam

By: Mike Hand

Mike Hand — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 20:41:29 +0000

Jake-
I operated my 1969 Skylane on auto fuel as well. I didn’t even mind (too much) the hassle that went along with toting all those gas cans around in the back of the pickup. My point was that it wasn’t “just” the fuel cost that killed my aviation habit, it was the sum of everything.

The cost benefit ratio just wasn’t there, even when I factored in the ease, convenience, freedom, enjoyment etc.

I guess I hit that wall before Ray Crandall did.

To everyone who hangs in there despite all the obstacles arrayed against you-fantastic job everyone! I wish I was one of you.

By: Charlie Branch

Charlie Branch — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:07:43 +0000

Ditto for me, as it was hard to part with this 1946 Aeronca Champion as those retirement dreams of refurbishment and visiting other fans of the type around the country are forced to give way to the realities of family, friends, and new community needs. Blue Thunder is going to good home shortly, closer to Rochester, WI , home of the current Type Certificate holder. I will remain a member of my local airport association, the Aeronca Aviators Club, and other organizations. Naturally, once you start looking up at the sound of an airplane, it’s nigh on impossible to break the habit, so I suppose I’ll be an APB (AirPort Bum, according to Gene Soper, author of the COE history book) forever.

A volunteer for Heritage Wings in 2012, and 2013 will be a fly-in, cruise-in lunch in August!

Charlie Branch

By: Ray Crandall

Ray Crandall — Fri, 26 Oct 2012 18:44:48 +0000

Thanks for the report. I have often wondered over the years where these rebuilt beauties wind-up.

The coments from Tony, Mike, Pier amd steve reminds us of the black hole situation that we have created with our beloved low time well maintained 1977 Seneca II. We have flow it 900 plus hours over the years and struggle to get 20 hours per year now.

The $5000.00 regular maintenance and annuals (if were lucky) the $3000.00 insurance premium and 20-25 gallons per hour burn rate just doen’t add up to a sound investment at $500.00 per hour. We are very fortunate that we have been able to afford the enjoyment and freedom it has provided for us over the years but now know that reality needs to kick in soon.

Talking with a broker the other day getting a feel for the market and values he made a comment that realy hit home. He said “Ray until you wake up some morning and seriously look yourself in the mirror and decide that it is time to sale the Airplane no one in this industry will be able to help you escape the love or misery you are dealing with”. I am sure there are many more Pilots Owners out there struggling along with us on that decision.

Good Luck

Ray and Valora Crandall